Ever come across the term “for an elderly lady” when researching antique sewing patterns and designs?
Yeah…. So what does THAT mean??
My mom is in her sixties. If you read about a 65 year-old woman in the news you might think that’s an elderly woman. But then I consider my 102 year-old living great-grandmother – *she’s* elderly – not my mom. 🙂
Well, even as I approach 40 I would be considered old in Victorian times. Why is that and how do we dress for our “elderly” status?
Read on my old friends…
General life spans were not as long as ours today which is why 30s and 40s were considered older adults. As a social commentary, older women will cling to those fashions they wore in their youth & 20s but perhaps adjusted for current styles a little. Hairstyles, too, will follow the same.
It’s the same as today. Fashion plates are the Vogue and In-Style magazines of our time. I bet hardly any of us here even wears Vogue fashions on a regular basis. The high fashion is left to the young (which is what you see in 19th C. fashion plates).
Therefore, researching existing antique garments gives a better picture… perhaps. Remember, those garments are the ones to survive. They aren’t the everyday dresses that would have been worn until they wore out or were re-fashioned for smaller sized generations. Those, for obvious reasons, don’t survive.
Older women would keep the décolleté modest or even covered with chemisettes and fichus. Dinner and evening bodices were elbow or 3/4 sleeves with shallow necklines. Older women have no need to attract the opposite sex (generally… you know what I mean), which is what the current fashions were designed to do.
So how does this translate to those of us who simply LOVE the low-cut bodices of ball gowns or the short, puffed sleeves of the Regency dresses?
It is my opinion that life is too short to quibble. To be petty about such things.
Historical costuming is a passion and hobby for most of us. Our current society has so many fashion styles in a giant conglomerate soup that if you were to dress in a short sleeve, deep V-neckline ball gown with draperies of roses and lace and all the deeply fabulous things we dream about of Victorian clothing, who’s to care?!
And if someone points out that a 70 year-old woman (or whatever age you are, 18 to 110) would never have worn such a thing, well… they don’t deserve your attention. But be sure I would be doing research only for my own education and amusement, not theirs.
Research what you want. Find out how “old” you are in historical terms then throw it out the window.
Put your heart into creating things that give you joy! And don’t be bogged down by too much minutiae and highfalutin opinions that come from others in our creative industry. Follow your heart and share it with others.
To heck with your “elderly” age. 🙂
This has been something on my mind lately, as I’m 24- still well within the designation of a young maid, if past debutante age -but I adore dark colors and jewel tones. I have significant gothic inclinations in my aesthetic, something that was done if uncommon at the time. On top of that, I…ah…prefer the company of other ladies, so at the time there’s a good chance I’d never be married if I had the financial wherewithal to live with a “bosom companion” instead.. At that point, does the married vs. unmarried distinction cease to matter? When I do marry, as I hope to someday, should I dress as if in an alternate version of the past where my marriage could be officially solemnized or carry on in “old maid” style? Since more feminine sapphists were not often recognized, let alone documented, we have no evidence of what they did in this situation.
Ultimately I’m inclined to throw rules to the wayside, as you suggest. Which is probably what I would have done back then, too. There’s no law that one’s Victorian (or Regency, or Georgian, etc.) persona has to be perfectly respectable!
Generally by late 20s and definitely by 30 years of age would a woman be considered an “old maid,” at least as far as she wanting to get married and husband hunting. As for how accurate you are in your historical impressions is really up to you on how you go about it. Although, if you are speaking to the public at events I would stick to what was societally correct at that time whether you are portraying a character as they were then or bringing your modern day perspective into your character.
Fascinating reading both in the post and in the comments section. The historical costuming world is full of people ready to tell others all about the rules for age, status, appropriateness, and correctness – whether they’ve asked for the rules or not. So it is refreshing to be reminded that this is “play” and we’re allowed to be playful. One of the privileges of my age that I happily embrace is that of wearing what I want, when I want, and how I want. Sometimes I go by “the rules” and sometimes I don’t. I mean, I”m a woman in my 40s who still enjoys playing dress up for fun. I’m already breaking all kinds of norms.
Love the fashion plate! Can you tell me the source? I have a very similar one captioned “Fashions for January 1844” but I don’t have any other information.
The top plate is from Godey’s Lady’s Book. In later 19th century times plates were widely shared from France, Britain and the U.S. and appeared in various monthly publications sometimes months apart.
My feeling if you feel good in what you’re wearing and look reasonable, own it and enjoy life!! It’s too short, enjoy it .
This has been a fascinating discussion. If I may add my two cents, it’s interesting how little it’s changed over the last two centuries that certain garments are appropriate for one age group but not another. As a sometime entertainer I come at this from a slightly different angle. I think about dressing to express the character I want to portray.
I choose my fabrics and styles according to the character I’m creating. Since I often am creating a character meant to be humorousI find what works best for me in creating such characters is the trope of the older lady who doesn’t realize she’s past it (think: Aunt Pittypat) or the highly eccentric lady with a personal obsession. I take my point of view that the character isn’t stupid, but only narrow-visioned in a particular area. Thus, the older woman who possesses the mind of a child will be dressed in pastels with many ruffles and bows. The lady whose fascination in exploring was fueled by the the many novels of the day will dress in sturdy shoes and fabrics and carry or decorate her garments with images of her imagined adventures, even if her choice of dress is very frilly.
So, really, it comes down to much more than the age on the YOUR calendar. It also comes to the story you want our outfit to tell. Are you dressing rich, middle class or poor? Would the real life wearer of your dress be independent or supported by someone else? If so, whom? If others support us financially they may have a say in the clothes they’re paying for. Therefore, a married woman whose husband hated the color green would never wear that color, even if it was her favorite. A financially secure widow in half-mourning might choose a younger cut to her dress even while adhering to the dictum that must be black with white (or other acceptable color). If, however, she were supported by her son (a situation that probably was very common) she might have to dress very severely because that would be what HE felt was proper for his mother to wear. How she would express her own feelings would be up to her own imagination and what her son let her get away with.
So when I choose what I’m making I take a lot more into consideration than whether a ‘woman of my age’ would wear some garment or other. I consider the story I want my dress to tell about the lady I want people to see.
It’s not as simple as age = the number of years you’ve lived when you make these choices on how to dress, it’s also age as a social construct, if I may use such an expression. An unmarried woman of 21 would probably wear different clothes than a married woman of the same age. Similarly, at some obscure, usually quite undefinable point, an unmarried female stops being a girl and turns into a woman/old maid and it becomes less appropriate for her to dress likeshe did when a girl.
How long people in general lived is also somewhat irrelevant. What is relevant is what age was considered to be “old”, and that does not necessarily depend in any way on how long that person is going to be “old” before they die. If you’re barely in your forties, but all your children are married and moved out (possibly with children of their own already), you can hardly justify calling yourself young (I’m thinking about the victorians here, in case someone is wondering). Many men retired in their fifties, some because they no longer needed to work as much in order to provide for their family, some because they no longer could due to having gone to work at a very early age and being too worn out when they reach 50. Once you are retired and out of the workforce, you could hardly justify calling yourself young. The pace of life, if you will, was very different, and old age could last for decades if you were lucky enough to live into your 70s or 80s.
It’s also worth keeping in mind that during most previous eras, being old was in no way a bad thing, socially. Being of a certain age meant you already knew something about life and the world and had experience, and were therefore worth listening to if you had something to say. If a teenaged person said disgustedly that someone was “so old”, well, that was a teenager, to teenagers anyone over 30 has been hopelessly old throughout history…
You’re right! There was difference between unmarried and married women clothing and accesories! For example, in the bustle era when a woman got married changed her hat from the girly straw hat to hooded bonnet also the married women were “bejeweled”, their jewelry was the richest and eye catching, a fashion advice noted that it was worth to get married just because of the choices a married woman could make from fabrics and colours and jewelry! The blue + yellow, silk + velvet dress posted above represents a married woman’s wear! Unmarrieds and youngsters were not allowed to wear heavy and luxorious fabrics like what that gown is made of! Ofcourse they could wear dresses like that there was no law forbiding but the society would be telling and the daring girl would soon find herself pariah :/ 🙁 It was very hazardous not to be dressed properly according to age! But the expection proves the rule: actresses and ladies of the high society were alloved to act a little bit rule breaking ( from an actress they didn’t accept less) and men found it very feminim if a young girl sometimes kicked the social standars just for indignation of fun:) But when they got engaged or married it was the husbands duty to sheperd back the wild shoots and live an exemplary social life with his wife.
You’re welcome 😉 It’s in the other people’s entry under the name Melinda Kovács, I think it’s souch a lovely gown to wear at a bal. A black dress among the the white ones = Anna Karenina effect is warranted 😀
Well I’m a few years off 30 and…well I’m a modest girl. I tend to wear historical fashions that others might class as for an older generation. But I just don’t look right in ‘cute girly’ I’m more stylish and sophisticated.
That would be ever so kind, Ms. Melie! ;D
I’m seriously trying to pout like Vivian Leigh, but it’s just not happening.
“don’t we all want dead exes?” :DDD
If Ms. Rosbrugh allowes it, I can help you to create a very pretty bal dress for a “garde de dame”. If she won’t remove it, I put out a pic in her Historical sewing fb profile so you can recreat it if you are in for historical dresses so much and have the skill to do it.
If you want to keep a low neckline bodice for the evening just choose from the accurate colouring to fit your age! For example, you are young and unmarried just choose white and light coloures (cream-colour, pale pink, pigeon-gray, light blue, etc.), if a little bit older but still unmarried yellow, dark pink, lilac, purple, green, etc., newly weds and young moms can choose deeper shades of all these coloures, red and black as well (not mourning fabrics and decorations!), elderly women wore darker shades of grey (50 :D), brown, dark and not shining fabrics & coloures and at the end of the line, when you are over your 60’s and widowed black is for all occassion! 🙁 Also the right fabric is important! But naturally, noone at that time wanted to dress according to their age, they also “cheated” with it, to restore youth in at clothing! 😉 Keep enjoying historical sewing !
Where could I find extra resources detailing what colours, fabrics, fashions, and hairstyles were considered appropriate for what age groups? I’m up on my traditional Japanese rules of kimono cut, colours, patterns, obi ties, makeup and hair, depending on age and status, but I’m less certain about Victorian guidelines. I want to know the rules before I judiciously break them. 😉
This idea has clarified some thoughts I’ve been having about costume personas. I always have, and still do, go by the guides for a young, unmarried woman. I’m north of 30, but still relatively young, and I’ve never been married. But by historical standards, I’m not quite so young (even if I look it – won the genetic lottery there; my mum can rock a hot pink minidress and blonde pixie cut at 60, and my great-granny turned somersaults on her 80th birthday, just because she could! ), and I’ve had more than one serious, long term, live in relationship. In the old days, I’d be a widow or a divorcee, possibly a fallen woman, some sort of a demi-mondaine, maybe even a stylishly kept woman! An artist,or actress, or dancer. (Kinda like now, only naughtier…)
I can’t wait to be scandalous! I just need to decide what to wear.
Well at your age, never married at the Victorian era would be probably considered as an old maid 🙁 Grown up girls born as the last sibling in the family had the destiny to stay with their parent and help them! Its quite a cruel life but try to understand the time period, when families lived together in one household, old people could only depend on their childrend or the closest relatives at the age when they turned helpless to care for themselves! No eldelry homes or hospital care, if you had no money (and believe me a lot didn’t have) to take servants, room maids, a cook, etc… you were simply naked to your family to care for you, to dress you up, to bath you, cook for you and so on! It was impossible for a family to seperate from each other as much as we do nowadays 🙁 But to answer your question, as an old maid, never married, a caring family member, the choise for dresses for you is dark coloures, long sleeves and high neckline, the decoration is simple, modest, the fabrick is unsplendour (just stay in the shadow of the corner of the bal room), you don’t have to fight for the attention of the other sex! You would be the right choise as the “gouar de dame” for the young ladies 😉 And becouse you don’t dance the skirt can end in a long train! The jewelry are also low-keyed, unexpencive!If we could travel in time back to the victorian era, out in the streets or in the bal rooms an expert eye could tell the social status of the ladies only by the dress!
Hmm, I can definitely deal with dark colours and a long train… And all I’d have to do to cause a scandal is wear a dress with a low neck and bright red trim, and get up to dance! 😉
And it really is funny how some things never entirely change. As the unmarried/undomesticated sibling, I’m always the one around and on call should my mum, sister, or niece, need a hand, and I’m going to be taking over the job of official family historian from my grandfather, too – he’s 83, newly married to a wonderful lady, and he’s got other things on his mind right now!
Though the family spreads over 3 cities, we stay tight, and have our unmarried, childless “caretakers”; I’m the northern one, and my cousin Ryan the Bouncing Blond Bachelor is the southern one. We’ve crossed the traditional gender lines with our areas of expertise, too – I will not ever willingly part with my power tools, and I’d trust Ryan in the kitchen far more than I would myself!
There’s one bit of spinsterdom that doesn’t quite fit (far from it!) though, and though ladies shouldn’t discuss such things, sometimes these things must be discussed. The problem is the Old Maid designation, the “maid” part derived from “maiden”, usually implying virginity. Not to call myself a tramp, but trying to intersect my own personality with any concept of (ahem…) inexperience just doesn’t work. Perhaps if we were to interpret a 5 year, live-in relationship in the past as a past marriage, since 150 yrs. ago we’d have no doubt eloped instead of just running off together… Then we could assume that the ex in question is dead, (don’t we all want dead exes?), and I could certainly be comfortable as a badly behaved young widow!
After all, however I misbehave by Victorian standards, I know that my reputation is safe with my costumer friends, who all have more than one questionable adventure in each of their pasts as well! ;D
I totally agree! Why would you keep pursuing a hobby if it isn’t making you happy? If you are still comfortable in a style, at whatever age, then wear it! I think many people are more help back by their own body image and feelings about their arms/legs/etc than reasons of historical accuracy, though. I wish I had realised 10 years ago what I could really get away with rather than being self-conscious, and in another 10 years I’ll probably say that about now!
Yet Mary Lincoln was noted for wearing the most revealing necklines of anyone at the capitol. Ladies then wore “younger” and more trendy fashions then for the same reasons they do now: to feel good.
I am going to use the Mary Lincoln argument on my mum the next time she starts fretting that she’s too old for a cute little dress!
I’ve read that the life expectancy of thirty/forty is a bit misleading-if you don’t include infants and children to five, it was much longer. :\
Yes, people lived to be quite the number in years. But you’ll find lots of period resources that indicate that an unmarried lady over 30 was an “old maid” or similar connotation.
Not by a whole lot. Death in childbirth was common, cholera, diphtheria, smallpox, and TB were endemic, epidemics were frequent and sometimes concurrent, there were no antibiotics, household accidents were more common, and up to a third of food was contaminated. It’s not just child mortality rates that caused a lower age expectancy.
I agree wholeheartedly. As a grand dame of 50, I have absolutely not attention of dressing like an old lady of any period!
I look at it a couple of different ways. Historically, if you lived past your child bearing years, you could make it well in to your 80s–same for men, though, with accidents and injury. I think the reason for them being older, was that priorities were different and adult life started much earlier than it does now.
I think it depends on if you are actually doing Living History or just Costuming. Costuming–anything goes, even if you are making a reproduction. Living History is an attempt to recreate the past, so I feel like guidelines apply there. I actually have fun determining what I would wear around my age in 1778 or 1814, looking at prior fashions and such.
That being said–I always look at historical fashions with an eye for the details; sometimes it’s easy to pick out the youthful ones (frou-frou, flowers, bows, ruffles), but sometimes not. Like the Cranach gown–my friend did a great deal of research by looking at paintings (and at people who recreated the gown), and determined it was a teenaged or young, premarital woman’s gown style. Once you start having children, the body changes and doesn’t allow for open-front of the Cranach gown.
Personally, I tend to stay away from the “youthful details.” When I hit my growth spurt at 14, I noticed I could no longer do “cute” very well. The puffed-sleeved, pastel pink dress I wore for a dance looked super-ridiculous on my broad-shouldered frame. On historical dresses, most fripperies annoy me, ESPECIALLY ruffles. Gathered trims don’t do well on me, either, I prefer the look of pleats.
Because of my pale coloring, I now tend towards lighter colors, even white, though a handful of dark, dignified colors look good on me.
I’m curious about the quotes under the two images. Usually when text is placed in quotes it means it came from another source but I don’t see any source cited and the text reads as modern not 1840’s when the plates are from. I’m also wondering if you can give sources from the era that show an attitude of 40 being old. I hear that notion over and over from reenactors but have never seen it in period literature. High infant mortality skewed “average” life expediencies which moderns like to quote. In reality, if you lived past infancy and childhood diseases , and women made it through child bearing years, many people lived into their 70’s and 80’s and some number into their 90’s. I do see references to those elders of society as being old.
Those are my own words for the photo captions.
I’m 68, and I’m not about to “flaunt” or expose my “less attractive parts” in period evening dress–Godey’s illustrations show young and beautiful women, but ladies
my age should remember that age has some privileges, one of which is to wear earlier styles, when the current fashions are unflattering. I refuse to show my elbows having seen my reflection in a store window ten years ago, and it’s comforting to know that 18th century gowns were required to cover elbows. I was thrilled to see an evening dress in the Philadelphia Museum of Art collection that had a clever sleeve design that suited my purpose.
Yes, and No.
I’m 63. A few years ago, I lost 30 pounds, miraculously I’ve managed to keep 28 of them off. Thus, I do like the way I look. I’ve never coloured my, now quite white, hair. I appreciate being able to turn an older gentleman’s head, from time to time.
Still, I HAD my chance to be young, once. It’s somebody else’s turn, now. I truly believe the 23 year old woman looks the way she does, to attract sperm and thereby continue her lineage of human beings.
AND
I live in fear of someone suggesting, I might look like Mutton, dressed as Lamb.
“…I might look like Mutton, dressed as Lamb.” This made me laugh out loud. So funny!
This made me laugh right out loud, too. And I will mentally file this for future reference.
Love this. I’m 62 and I can see reasons to wear a chemisette and longer sleeves, only because my age shows there. But if my age wasn’t showing in those areas, I would flaunt them and flaunt them well :). Where are those little 5# dumbells?…
Just want to throw this out there – the quantification of life expectancy in the 19th century has been quite mythologized. Historians now recognize that, when adjusted for high infant mortality rates, the average life expectancy was well within what we consider normal today. Long story short, if you lived past your childhood years it was likely that you could expect to live into your 70s, or even 80s or 90s. 40 was NOT “old and decrepit” – and ladies in 40s and greater today shouldn’t feel as if they would have been considered elderly in the Victorian era 🙂
Here’s a blog that explains some of this.