Have you ever thought about how tight your historical clothing should be? Fit is very important for that “look.” However, is there a point where we are so concerned with that “look” that we forget we’re reproducing garments that were intended to be lived in?
We see antique, existing clothing on mannequins and fashion sketches in plates and have this perception that they were ALL tightly fitted when worn. Sometimes with little or no ease at all. Even early photographs present this.
But isn’t it logical that not everyone wore their clothes super tight as we perceive them to be?
I mean, look at modern clothes. When we see great fit on models in advertisements and then go into a store to purchase that same garment, it will fit differently on us and also on the woman next to us. What we want is to look like the model. But do we stop wearing those garments just because it fits differently on us?
Granted, we’re looking at mass produced clothing here. Most all 19th century clothes were made for the individual wearer. The fit *was* tighter.
But as modern dressmakers re-creating historical pieces, do you think we over-fit sometimes? Do you think we have this idealized point of view with all clothing fitting the silhouette tightly all the time?
Those we study were real people going about everyday activities. They lived and moved in their clothes. Just like we do in our modern wardrobe.
Do you feel it would be sacrilege to represent their fashion a little loose or baggy in a few of our created garments?
We are always striving for a “perfect fit.” But what does this mean? Can it yet be a bodice with an inch of ease, or a skirt an inch too short and still be “period correct?”
I suppose it comes down to the look you want to present with your outfits. Are they made to be lived in? Or simply costumes to take portraits in? The difference will depend on how tightly you fit that bodice. How long you make that skirt hem. Consider the style you want to portray and make your costumes accordingly.
What’s your opinion on “over-fitting” historical garments?
This is definitely a thought provoking article, I think that when we only have surviving garments to study as well as photos of people in their best clothes it’s hard to tell how fitted or tightly fitted they were for everyday living.
Personally, I know that modern thinking towards today’s clothes still affects what size pattern I cut out and I’m working to get out of that mindset.
What is a good idea is to wear the mockup for a while just around the house to see how it feels – if it is comfortable or not – or if it’s restricting any movements. Then you can make adjustments needed to ensure that you’re bodice will fit properly and comfortably when out and about =)
The answer is in pattern drafting books of the era. Take your measurements, apply the instructions in the book, and voila, the fit of the era, without the need for any conjecture on the topic. I can vouch for 1908 being very tight in comparison to modern standards.
Also, among the not-so-wealthy, clothing would be worn & mended until nothing was left. Pregnancy, illness, changes in diet and the passage of time all change the shape.
I’m very new to historical clothing and this wonderful site. These thoughts have been in my head since I’ve come to the fold. It reminds me of when you buy a pattern with a sketch on it…you always know that it’s not going to look like the drawing, and why I like photos of finished garments as well. But if you’ve seen photoshoots of catalogs you know there’s a lot of pinning and taping to get the garment to fit in an appealing way. Not to say we can’t strive for a more graceful fit, but lots of the sources are fashion shots. I’m tempted to seek out some of those old movies of old San Francisco taken from the cable cars running down Market St. 🙂 Thanks for a thought provoking topic.
I once needed a late Victorian dress for a Live Action Role Playing game (LARP), set in the West. I was playing a wealthy woman, but one who was also an active rancher. I had long planned to make the 1878 Snowshill Manor daydress from Janet Arnold’s “Patterns of Fashion”, & decided that THIS WAS THE TIME! So, determined that it would be a really good project (& not just thrown together for the game), I asked for fitting help from my sewing circle. Who proceeded to pin the dress to me in such a way that I could not even get it off by myself. My husband actually had to try to hide his snickering when I tried pointing out to them, in vain, that “I’ll be wearing this during a LARP, I have to be able to move!”, only to be told, “No, you don’t.” They had NO IDEA what was involved. Needless to say, I didn’t sew the dress as closely as they pinned it up (and a good thing, too; I’ve put on about 5 pounds in the 2 years since I made it!). Everyone says the gown looks *great*, so I guess it’s ok that it’s not like a 2nd skin!
I have photo’s of some of my ancestors from victorian/edwardian times. And none of their clothes have a really close fit. They actually look quite comfortable. I believe they were lower middle/upper working class.
Diane Y has a good point. I have been working on my first Victorian inspired outfit and I had a ton of alterations to do on my TV Vest Basque pattern. I had to finally just fix up another pattern that was more modern.
Note that the 1880s and 1900 photos above show gowns made by highly skilled professional dressmakers rather than the average home sewer, so the fit of those garments achieved a level of perfection that most of us can only dream of. And the wearers of such gowns, who of course enjoyed liberation from household drudgery, also relied on a lady’s maid to help them into and out of those snugly fitted bodices, as well as male assistance in getting into and out of the wheeled vehicles of their day — or up into the saddle when riding horseback. None of us today enjoy those benefits. We struggle into closely fitted bodices either on our own or with the well meaning but frequently inept assistance of a spouse, and then we squeeze ourselves anyhow into low-slung automobiles with seats designed for slouchers, not corseted and bustled doyennes. Any woman in her right mind will fit SOME ease into her Victorian bodices!
On the other hand one could also consider the lifestyle of people in the 19th century and who wore it what way and why, as it were. Wealthier women did not need to do nearly as much exertion and activity, therefore it would not necessarily be so much of a problem to have whilst working women would need a little more movement and forgiveness. It also, in modern re-creation, comes down to the level of dedication or what precisely you would wear the clothes for: a costumer may ere on the side of comfort whilst a living historian will ere on the side of exactness. Portraits, fashion plates, and photographs cannot ALWAYS be relied upon for every-day-life, they were something done specially, but they do represent a slice of life.
I think that one should consider the purpose of the garment when considering ease, and the persona one wishes to present with it. If you’re going for “fashionista at a dinner party” or “debutante visiting Important Personages,” then probably you should fit as closely as possible to the fashionable silhouette. If on the other hand, you’re going for “Lady doing good works” or “Lady less interested in fashion than ____,” or of course most particularly “dowd,” then maybe the fit doesn’t need to be so strictly polished. I suspect, for instance, that those ladies who wore “Amelia Bloomer’s scandalous costumes” didn’t worry about “the perfect fit” so much.
I think that most people lived in their clothing, yes. BUT, the lifestyles were much different just 100 years ago than they are today. It was possible to have tighter fitting clothing because most families had a domestic living with them until the 1930s – women didn’t have to perform all the housework. You definitely see in the 1930s and the Great Depression that women’s clothing has shifted to easier movement and drape so that women could move more easily. If we are talking middle to upper class Victorian era, the tight fit might have been more plausible. A lady of leisure, so to speak, could wear the dresses tighter because her movements were not so vigorous as even at a reenactment of the era. But, when it comes to ME, even though I prefer middle to upper class, I am going to make them comfortable and something I can feel confident in. So, a bit less tight than may have been intended, but smooth lines still a must.
Nice article with lots of thought provoking questions and I LOVE that Edwardian dress! 🙂
In a conversation about fit, the place a modern wearer would feel the most constriction is in the upper torso and armscye. Without that super high armscye (as compared to modern clothes) your garments will move around and re- adjust as you move your arms, both up and down, and some times around. If you have a garment that is stable on the body because of a -scye line that stays in position while the garment is worn, you can tolerate much more close fit.
Now the mess of it is getting a -scye line that is sufficiently high. The last one I created that was high, not too tight around the underarm and shoulder, and made my dress stay in place, I had to make a mockup, and tape the difference! It was over an inch too low when it was cut. In this way, patterns are solving the armscye/ sleeve problem differently than historical forebears. When we use a pattern that solves sleeves in this way, some of our ease goes north and south on the figure because our sleeves hike up what we wear!
I’d never thought about moving the armscye up before, but now that you mention it, most of the extant garments I’ve checked do have high-set sleeves. I know that wearing a well-fitted corset also forces you into a better posture, usually with the arms back. Modern clothing usually has only a bra (often in the incorrect size) and panties under while our ancestors were more solidly supported…like a dress form, if you think about it. My clothes fit my dress form much differently than they fit my un-corestted body, but as soon as I put my corset in, the dress form and I “match” shapes fairly well. The garment fabric can be tighter because it’s fitted around a shape that doesn’t shift and bulge as much when we move, unlike my modern clothing which has to deal with, well, more “jello jiggling.” I do have trouble getting the back of my dresses to lie smooth like they should, though. My shoulders are wide, but my back is not. I haven’t quite figured out how to fix that gracefully yet! 🙂
When I first started making regency dresses for balls (English Country Dancing), I was doing so without a regency corset. I had instruction and someone measure me for my regency corset, which I then had to re-adjust because it was too roomy. There is nothing like learning about your real size than making one of these. It’s useful for all different kinds of sewing, and once you face up to the fact that you are fitting you and not a fashion model mannequin, the results will be satisfying. After I re-adjusted the regency corset and fit my dressmaking form to accommodate it. (stuffed fabric around the inside to simulate the sisters, I ended up with well fitting dresses, and the corset keeps everything from bouncing up and down during slipping and skipping. Fitting a dress without first creating a corset is a mistake, I think. I am very happy with my decision to make the corset then create the dress. It all takes time, but the time is worth it.
Fantastic article. This such an interesting question. I think the key as with modern clothing is you have to feel comfortable. I recently had a dress made for my sisters wedding in a 1950’s sheath dress style (I didn’t want the stress of making it myself) The dressmaker would not make it tight enough despite endless fittings and when we chatted about it she admitted that she always made things loose as that’s how she wears her own clothes, she wouldn’t dream of wearing tight fitting clothing. She couldn’t comprehend the idea that I like to feel my clothing when I wear it, A snug nipped in waist and smooth fabric over the bust and hip that’s how I know it fits me and isn’t baggy and making those areas look bigger. Interesting how we all have different ideas of fit and comfort.
It’s also more flattering. A lot of people with weight problems think that if they wear their clothes very loose and baggy that it will hide their figures. Nothing could be further from the truth. Baggy, saggy clothes tend to make us look even larger! I fit my clothes to show off the fact that despite my weight I have a very small waist!